3/1/2009 6:00:00 AM McCain: We're in for a long, hard struggle in Afghanistan
JC AMBERLYN/Miner
Arizona Sen. John McCain fields questions from members of the Miner Editorial Board, Miner Editor Mark Borgard, News Editor Rich Thurlow and Reporter Suzanne Adams.
During his visit to Mohave County last week, Arizona Sen. John McCain sat down with the Kingman Daily Miner Editorial Board to discuss a number of issues. The senator answered questions about the economic stimulus package, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, education and other issues. The following is Part II of the discussion the board had with the senator on Feb. 19.
MINER: I had a lady call just a little bit ago and she wanted to make sure I said something about this uranium. The Board of Supervisors basically just signed something that said they were OK with the government looking at the uranium mines around the Grand Canyon area.
MCCAIN: Well, I've found in these environmental issues that many times the answer lies between the two positions. I don't know of anybody, including the Board of Supervisors, who wants to endanger the Grand Canyon.
Maybe there's somebody out there that wants to harm the Grand Canyon. I just haven't met them.
Uranium is important if we're going to go to nuclear power, which I believe is a key factor in eliminating and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. I think that climate change is real and we need a supply of uranium.
It seems to me that there should be environmental impact studies and that mining could take place without any possibility of endangering the Grand Canyon and risking pollution, further pollution of the Colorado River. The Colorado River is already polluted, as we well know. One of the big issues in Bullhead (City) and Lake Havasu (City) is the pollution of the Colorado.
So we'll get into it some more and see if there's some kind of happy medium between doing absolutely nothing and providing a way for having some uranium produced here in the United States instead of overseas.
MINER: My parents live down in Yuma. One of the things they're most worried about is illegal immigration. My dad is fired up by the fact that that became a non-issue when you guys were running for president, at least the last six months of it. And he basically just wants to know, is there going to be something from the federal level to stop this?
MCCAIN: I don't know because the president leads. It was President Bush and me and Ted Kennedy who came up with the last proposal, which failed twice. So, President Obama is going to have to lead on this issue.
Having said that, I was recently down on the border, protection is better with the line of fences. I do try to remind people that virtual fences are better than actual fences when you're in deserted areas, because walls have to be manned, and if they're not manned, then people break them down.
Also, walls are not the only answer to border security. There's a huge problem right now that's an existential threat to the Mexican government and that's the drug cartels. In Nogales, Sonora, the other day, 21 people were killed in a shootout in the streets.
I think because of the economy, not necessarily because of the laws, there's been a dramatic reduction in illegal immigration. I think it's because of a lack of economic opportunity, as much or more than any other factor, and some (illegal immigrants) have indeed gone back to Mexico. When our economy recovers, that will change again.
I think we still need to have comprehensive immigration reform. I think we ought to assure people that our borders are secure. I also try to remind people that 40 percent of the people who are in this country illegally come on a visa that's legal and it's expired. So when you secure the borders, you still got 40 percent of the people in this country coming in legally and staying illegally.
We need to work closely with the Mexican government and we need to do a better job of trying to reduce demand for drugs. The reason why these drug cartels are fighting each other and the Mexican government is they want to get into the lucrative business of selling drugs in the United States of America. So, we do have a responsibility, we do.
We have an initiative, in which we spend $400 million to try to help the Mexicans in their battles against the drug cartels. I can assure you the corruption in Mexico goes to the highest levels. It is an absolute existential threat. If they take over in Mexico, or they have a kind of truce, as they had in previous administrations in Mexico, we'll be the ones that suffer the most. It's not just cocaine, as you know, it's meth. Meth is a big problem up in this part of the state.
MINER: So do you support efforts like (Maricopa County Sheriff Joe) Arpaio? He's taken a pretty active stance against this.
MCCAIN: I haven't taken a stance for or against it. That's up to the sheriff and the county and others. I know how high emotions are.
I say the answer to the problem is comprehensive immigration reform, which as you know is, secure the border, a temporary worker program and a path to citizenship for people. Put 'em in line behind everyone who has come here legally or left legally, make them pay fines, learn English, etc., etc. But there's not 12 million pairs of handcuffs in America to deport them all.
All I can say as a Republican, a proud Republican, party of Abraham Lincoln, we are losing the Hispanic vote because Hispanics believe that Republicans don't like them. George Bush in 2000 and 2004 got 43 percent of the Hispanic vote. I got 31 percent Hispanic vote. I'm not talking about illegal immigrants. I'm talking about people who are citizens that vote. We Republicans had better understand that the party of Abraham Lincoln is an inclusive party, not an exclusive party. That means reaching out to the Hispanic community, recruiting and electing Hispanics to upper offices.
If Sheriff Arpaio continues his activities, that's up to the voters. You're not going to see me taking positions that are counter to the fundamental principals of the Republican Party. There's a lady with a lamp in New York Harbor that says, "Send me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses."
We want them sent legally. We want them to come, to come legally. It's been the greatest opponent to me because Hispanic citizens are pro-life, pro-small business, very patriotic, there's a lot that serve in the military service, all of the things that our Republican Party is supposed to be all about.
MINER: Senator, speaking of the military, what's going on in Afghanistan and specifically in Pakistan in the Swat Valley? How much of a concern is that to you?
MCCAIN: Very, and I think we're in for a long, hard struggle there. I don't think there's going to be Anbar Awakening as there was in Iraq. Our mission in Afghanistan has to be preventing Afghanistan from becoming a base for organizations that would attack the United States and our allies.
MINER: Excuse me, sir, but isn't that what's happening also with Pakistan?
MCCAIN: In Pakistan, you have an area of that county, Waziristan, and other areas that have basically never been governed. They're tribal entities. The tribes and (former Pakistan President Pervez) Musharraf tried to succeed militarily and they got their nose bloodied pretty badly. So they just made another "truce" in the last few days.
Pakistan has just elected a new government. The president (Asif Ali) Zardari is pretty good. He has exceeded our expectations. The military is showing no signs of wanting to take over the government as Musharraf did.
I noted in the paper this morning that the Pakistanis condemn our attacks by our Predators (drones), but at the same time, we get a wink and a nod. I find that interesting.
I think that Pakistan has got enormous economic problems, too, which exacerbates the situation. They are an elected and functioning government.
In Iraq, three years ago, the whole country was on the brink of total collapse. I think it's different from Iraq.
Although, Mr. Holbrook wants to paint it (Afghanistan) as the greatest challenge since Winston Churchill. It is not a great challenge. It is doable. It's viable. But it's going to be extremely long and difficult, and there's 17,000 (troops) and others that are going to go in the southern part of the country, which we have not controlled. That means increased expenditure of American blood and treasure. I grieve for them. I have great faith and confidence in Gen. (David) Petraeus. He has devised a narrow strategy so we can succeed.
Yes, your point is well made, a lot of it depends on some kinds of help from Pakistan, but remember they weren't helping us in Iraq, either. In fact, they were doing the opposite. We can do it, but it's going to be long and hard and very difficult.
MINER: What's our goal, though? Is the goal to find Osama? Is our goal to take out the Taliban and crush them?
MCCAIN: I thought I just articulated our goal. Our mission has to be to make sure that Afghanistan is not a base for extremist organizations to launch attacks against the United States and our allies.
Yes, we want all the trappings of democracy. We want (Afghanistan President Hamid) Karzai to clamp down on the corruption. We want all of those things to happen and they have to, but first we have to have security. We proved in Iraq, first you got to have the security, then all the other institutions flourish. Those who get that backward are doomed to fail.
MINER: Senator, can we still lose Iraq?
MCCAIN: Yeah, I think if we withdraw too fast. (Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al) Maliki has shown pretty surprising, pleasantly surprising leadership. I think there's still friction in places like Mosel between the Kurds and Shia and others. It's possible to lose it if we withdraw too fast. I would rely on Gen. (Ray) Odierno. But we've come an astonishingly long way in the last few years.
MINER: Do you think President Obama is of a mind to listen to the generals?
MCCAIN: Yes, I do. He's got to balance his commitment to 16 months (a campaign pledge to remove troops). You can succeed in that. I'm not trying to say that he's not going to be honest with the American people. Don't get me wrong. But you can still leave people there (in Iraq) who are trainers, support, you know and not have people out and still comply with, I think, Gen. Odierno's and Gen. Petraus' goal of maintaining enough troops and enough presence there to secure the country and not have a setback.
MINER: Green energy, especially in Mohave County, is becoming a big plan, idea. There's been talk of wind power in the county. I know you spoke of it during the election, are there ways of encouraging that?
MCCAIN: In the stimulus package and the one we (the Senate) proposed, there are incentives for doing so. I believe tax incentives are quite meaningful.
There's a little company in Flagstaff that makes these little windmills. As you might recall, a couple of years ago we passed tax breaks for wind energy. The guy that runs that company said that was the key factor in letting us (him) move forward.
I think tax breaks and incentives are important and also research and development, pure research and development on the part of the government. I think Arizona is the ideal place for solar, wind, etc.
I just want to add one point. Nuclear power has got to be part of any equation if you really want to eliminate or reduce our return of greenhouse gas emissions. France generates 80 percent of their electricity through nuclear power. They reprocess and they store spent nuclear fuel. They are the only country that is meeting their Kyoto goals that they laid out several years ago. Nuclear power, as proven in Palo Verde and other places, is a doable option. If other countries have been able to solve it, we ought to be able to solve it, too. Right now, it's up to the utilities.
MINER: You don't see any movement (on nuclear power) at all?
MCCAIN: No. I've talked to some of the big utilities and they say they don't want to have the experience that they had in the '70s when all of a sudden things came to a halt. The Yucca Mountain issue is part of the problem.
Our utility companies have failed to appreciate what the Europeans have done. That is, that every nuclear power plant in France looks exactly the same. So the licensing process (for new reactors) could be shortened and cut in half if everybody did the same design. And, yet, every time we do a nuclear power plant, it's a new design, so the NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) has to examine it. It's crazy. It's nuts, it's just nuts.
MINER: We have no oil refineries here in Arizona. It all has to be piped in. We've been told that our prices here in Kingman have gone up because they're selling more to California now. It has to be trucked up from Phoenix. Would you like to see Arizona have oil refineries, do you think that would help?
MCCAIN: There was a project for years that was pursued up in this area. It just never got off the ground. The folks that were trying to build it just finally threw up their hands.
We haven't built a new refinery in the United States in I think 35 years. It's not unlike the nuclear power issue. Everybody thinks we've got to have a refinery. Everyone's for it but then we get down to the details. Where in America can you meet the environmental requirements? The last effort that I remember was the one here in Arizona.
By the way, the price of a barrel of oil, last time I checked, was $34. I guarantee you when the economy recovers, and it will recover, your going to see it jump right back up in the $140-$150 range.
We are wasting a golden opportunity to go ahead with some of these alternative energy stuff while fuel is cheap, while it's inexpensive to transport all this stuff that will build the solar field and windmills and stuff. We are going to look back and say, "Gee, why didn't we do more when oil was $34."
MINER: Do you have anything else you want to share with us, Senator?
MCCAIN: I would just like to emphasize again, I know how gloomy things are right now. The mayor was just telling me that the line for unemployment benefits is long here in Kingman. That people are lining up for temporary jobs of every kind. It's terrible, it's terrible. It's so sad.
I think we have to give people hope that we're going to come out of this terrible crisis, the worst of our lifetime. We will grow and prosper and we will create jobs, but we've all got to work together in order to do so.
We've had great leaders throughout history, and I know President Obama is a very charismatic leader. We have to give people a combination of the enormity of the challenge but also some hope and optimism that we're going to come through it.
And you (the news media), I think could be very helpful by understanding and appreciating how difficult times are, but we're still the strongest and best nation in the world. Part of the ingredients are hope and confidence in the future, but somehow we've got to provide them with some reason to have that.
Glad to see you and I love this part of Arizona with Route 66 and Kingman and the courthouse and all the tradition that's here. I hope to come back soon.
Reader Comments
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2009
Article comment by:
JMT
Hey McCain, the statue of liberty wording was NOT written by the USA but by the french & it's NOT in the Constitution.
I view McCain as a traitor for several reasons with JUST one of them is him being PRO-ILLEGAL ALIEN.
I don't give a rat's butt WHERE illegal aliens come from...ALL adults that are caught being here illegally should be deported & BARRED FOREVER from being allowed legally back into the USA for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER with LWOP being the punishment for being caught here a 2nd time illegally instead of being rewarded w/ amnesty.
And the BS excuse that since we can't catch & deport ALL of them instead of just the one's we catch is faulty 'logic'...using that logic there are a whole lot of laws that ought not be enforced & given amnesty...for example we can't catch & jail ALL child molesters so using McCain et al's 'logic' the govt should put out the word to child molesters that they will be given amnesty if they say they're 'sorry' & pay a fine if they come forward...that would JUST AS STUPID as what he's saying about illegals.
Posted: Sunday, March 01, 2009
Article comment by:
No name provided
I won't read all this non-sense. All I have to say is the USSR, RUSSIA, got know where in Afghanistan. It cost them a fortune. And Russia is right next door to Afghanistan. It may have helped bring about there down fall.
For our country to continue to fight in Afghanistan is a foolish waste of money, and human life. We would be much better off spending the money keeping the enemy out of our country. During WW 2 we would not allow any Japaneses or Germans in the country. This would be absolutely fool-hearty wouldn't it? They would take over from within. By the same token we should not allow the enemy in wither they seem to be good, bad, or indifferent.
Of course our country is collapsing because of all the stupidity of capitalists, and socialists; sending our jobs to China and India, sending our money out of the country to Arab oil countries. Our government and corporations allowing the Mexican Invasion and colonization of our country. Mexican's increasing home invasion's, that have gone from zero, to occasional, to 12 home invasions a month in Pima county, Tuscon.
What can we expect from a government, (owned operated, and run by the corporations), that has lost it's sense of country? We can expect what we are experiencing? Collapse.
